Good evening, gentlemen.
For those of you paying close attention to my blog, you may have noticed that my earlier post about Tucker Max went private. I’m going to tell you why.
After writing a scathing post about Tucker, Geoffrey and Mating Grounds that quickly went to the top 3 in Google searches for Mating Grounds, I realized that I was working off of 2nd hand information that I had not bothered to confirm personally. I had never talked to the guy, I hadn’t read the tweets that bloggers were quoting, nothing. I was attacking based solely on second and third hand information from other bloggers, many of whom were also operating on hearsay.
As you all know, I am a major advocate of personal responsibility, ownership of every action including mistakes, etc. If I make a mistake, I have only myself to blame. I decided I needed more info if I was going to let that negative post remain on the first page of Google results. So I grabbed my phone and tweeted Tucker.
I admit I was rather brash and adversarial with my tweet. I basically called him a liar and told him we would kill his project before it even launched. My blood was still running a little hot from all the Manosphere drama of the week. I was aggressive, Tucker got defensive, we had some back and forth. I won’t delve too deep into it, but those who follow me on Twitter (@DoctorIllusion) can check it out if you’re interested.
I realized he seemed a bit surprised and dumbfounded by the attacks, and began to wonder if he had consciously snubbed the ‘Sphere or if there may have been a misunderstanding. I eased back on the aggression and started trying to have an honest conversation. Tucker was willing to do so, and we went from tweeting to direct messaging. From there we went to email.
I explained to him that the main issue we all had was him essentially denying our existence and claiming we weren’t writing about the exact things he and Geoffrey were planning to write about. He admitted that he had been wondering why 4 guys kept attacking him on Twitter over the content of a site he hadn’t even launched yet, and asked me to reserve judgement about content theft until he actually put up some content and launched the site. This seemed reasonable. But the problem of his denying our existence was still there, and I wanted to put this thing to rest once and for all.
So, for about 6 (beer soaked and smoke filled) hours, we went back and forth and got down to brass tacks. I contacted people for more info on what’s been said, etc. The real picture formed from the haze (or maybe that was just smoke.)
First off, he didn’t say the entire Manosphere was dressed up PUA residue. He said that was mostly the case, and I confirmed this with screenshots of his old tweets taken by Wald. And I cannot honestly deny what he was saying. When you first enter the Manosphere, you will encounter Roosh, Roissy, Rollo, Krauser, etc. These are guys who write almost exclusively about women, pick-up, sex, hypergamy, negging, etc. So I could see where he was coming from. I consider anyone who writes almost exclusively about women to be somewhat of a pussy worshipper/PUA. Men who are used to getting the women they want don’t feel the need to talk about it all day and night. It’s just business as usual.
So, now that he and I were on easy terms and the aggression and hostility was done with, I felt that we could bury the hatchet between us and preferably with the whole Manosphere. That would, of course, involve Tucker publicly admitting that we exist, he knows about us, and that we have been writing about women, sex and self improvement for years.
So, and I quote precisely without any editing or paraphrasing, Tucker’s official statement regarding the Manosphere:
“Of course the Manosphere exists. I never said it didn’t. And of course the Manosphere has been writing about women, sex, dating, etc, for a long time. I never said it didn’t. Dude, I (kind of) predate the Manosphere on the internet, I remember it’s emergence. It’s been great for a lot of guys. I even think there are some really good Manosphere sites (I also think many are badly regurgitated PUA bullshit, but whatever).
That being said, our site (and book, when it comes out) are going to fill a space that no Manosphere site is occupying. We’re going to approach sex and dating in a way it hasn’t been approached before, and provide a perspective that neither Geoff not I have seen.
Or, maybe I should say it this way: we’re going to write about issues like sex, dating and women for young guys in a way that we think will be better, clearer and more impactful than anything else (in or out of the Manosphere). And we are pretty certain we’ll do it in such a way that it’ll get more attention, and have more mainstream reach, and ultimately help more guys.”
So, there you have it. Tucker openly admits that he has read the Manosphere, has followed it since the beginning, and acknowledges that we produce some good content about the exact same things he is building his new site around.
I remember Danger and Play saying “If he said I’m going to do it better, I wouldn’t mind.” So here you go, Mike.
Tucker thinks that he and Geoffrey can do what we do, in a new way and a new niche, and do it better. I’m willing to accept that challenge. I hope you guys are as well.
A few other things that were discussed in this conversation: Tucker realizes that the media has to put labels on everything, and knows that the label Mating Grounds will end up with is “Manosphere site.” He wants to avoid that for as long as he can, to avoid the bad press during the start-up phase, but he agrees that the negative opinion of the Manosphere as a whole is bullshit. Once the media labels his site “Manosphere” we will all get more attention and traffic. We’ve been preparing for this since last year, we can deal with public exposure.
This is me burying the hatchet. I’m done attacking and/or gainsaying Mating Grounds. Tucker has made his amends, he admits we exist and that he reads us from time to time, he admits we’ve been writing about this stuff for years. He assures me he will stand behind that quote, and I believe him. So, if you truly feel he is ripping off your content, you can come here for evidence that he’s been aware of us for years, if that makes you feel better.
If anyone has any questions or wants to know more about all of this, shoot me a comment.